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What is wrong with the current Subscription Process when using C/C

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 12:36:00 - [1] Hello everyone. I have recently had to re-sub my game since my game expired when i noticed somthing rather strange. I personally pay via credit card, directly to ccp. i thougth this was the chespest most effective way but it seems i am mistaken infact it looks as if we are being over charged! Let me explain: 1 month subscription 14.95 euro 3month subscription 38.85 euro. Now im british so lets convert this into a currency i can understand: 1month - ú9.91 3months - ú25.75 thanks to xe.com Ok fair enough, but what are these etc's i hear so much about lets have a look at the first site i come to.. shateredcrystal.com for example. 30 day time code: $14.99 90 time code: $38.99 note this is in dollers. Nice little conversion to GBP: 30 day code - ú7.68 90 day code - ú19.97 -------------------------------- So what does this mean? Well lets work out the saving by using gtc's: 30day/1month = ú9.91 - ú7.68 = ú2.23 90 day/3months = ú25.75 - 19.97 = ú5.78 this is how much more you pay if you sub by credit card. Now it is possible for the prices on te site to be in $ which would mean that everything was the same and all is well but because we are using euros and these gtc sites use dollers the exchange rate makes it that we are being riped off by ú6 every 3 month subscripsion which could pay for an extra months subscription! Sorry if im wrong but i just work up and my maths is bad lol. /discuss -Curver
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Industries	Posted - 2007.01.31 12:53:00 - [2] Think that that is a combination of an outdated exchange rate ($ are worth a lot less compared to ú now), and VAT charged on purchases in the UK.
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:02:00 - [3] all calculations were done using www.xe.com which in my experence is one of the most relyable upto date curreny converters. The gtc's were inclusive of VAT, if there is vat added to the credit card cost also it makes the different even more steep!
Cotton Tail Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Curver all calculations were done using www.xe.com which in my experence is one of the most relyable upto date curreny converters. The gtc's were inclusive of VAT, if there is vat added to the credit card cost also it makes the different even more steep! I believe he meant that CCP prices are using an out-dated exchange rate, one where the dollar is much stronger against the pound than it is now. It's a bit of a tricky situation, CCP would probably rather avoid changing prices every week/month to keep up to date with exchange rates, although it is a bit unfair for the UK atm. Personally I just buy GTCs from US companies from CCPs trusted list on this site, get them instantly and save a few quid.
Taaketa Frist PoliCratton Technologies 5th Column	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:25:00 - [5] If you live in the UK and have subscribed from the start of 2005 you no longer can choose to pay in Dollars but only in Euros. This character has been activate since 2004 and still pays dollars. The Euro is strong than the Dollar against the pound at the moment. (last figure I got from my bank was 1.9 dollars to 1 pound adn 1.4 Euros to 1 pound) I also do not think we will get to choose dollars again as it makes more business sense for UK people to Euros to CCP as then they do not have to pay a conversion rate to convert their dollars into euros. etc etc. (it also depends on which one is strong against their own economy and really the dollar is playing badly on the international market at the moment) -------------- Dang nabit
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:37:00 - [6] It's down to exchange rates... At the end of the day, CCP still get the same amount paid to them in Euro's so they are not ripping you off.
Taaketa Frist PoliCratton Technologies 5th Column	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Rashmika Clavain At the end of the day, CCP still get the same amount paid to them in Euro's so they are not ripping you off. Not strictly true. -------------- Dang nabit
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:44:00 - [8] If they are paying in Dollars, it is converted to teh required amount of Euro's... same goes for Pound Stirling. How can it not be the case?
Siri Blue Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:47:00 - [9] Well, atm both UK and Euros pay too much OR yanks pay not enough... silly exchange rates... In theory either the $ costs per month or the Euro(and pound) costs per month had to vary depending on the exchange rates... But somehow I doubt this will happen
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:51:00 - [10] That's fine, I just found it disagreable that someone is accusing CCP of ripping people off when (to me) it's clearly down to Exchange Rates.
Gunnanmon Gallente Forty Two	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:52:00 - [11] /me joins in the crying.
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:59:00 - [12] Well ccp have direct conrol of their subscriptions. Its not like they are powerless. They must sell GTC's to companies to sell on to us, they should make these companies sell the gtc's at the same cost to subscription or MORE. Prefrably more to discourage GTC sales since im sure it costs CCP more to sell gtc's than to have someone direcly subscribe with credit card. This should be passed onto the users, otherwise why dosnt everyone just buy GTC's off sites, CCP loose money by having to pay them commission. But instead they allow the UK members to pay increasing prises which is actually more than any other MMO at ú9.91 a month. Im not complainign about cost its just the inequality of not treating all members equal.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:04:00 - [13] Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 31/01/2007 14:03:22 So you want CCP to allow UK members to pay their sub in Dollars? I don't think that's up to CCP. If CCP traded in Dollars, you'd still pay in Pound Stirling as the money comes from your bank/credit card in the UK. As such, you still get the discrepancies in payments for differing currencies through the exchange rate.
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:04:00 - [14] Get used to it. They dont call Britain the "golden ilse" or "rippoffbritain" for nothing.
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:10:00 - [15] no i dont expect brittain to expect us to pay in dollers. I expect them to raise the cost of GTC's or lower the cost of the euro subscription. I am looking out for CCP's best interest. It is much better for business is people subscribe via direct debit, or directly to them with credit card. Not as much cost is involved. If this continues the UK population of the game, which is a large ammount, will switch to USA game time codes to save the extra money. We like to save money in the uk. This will incur adidtional costs and loss in profit for ccp. This profit lost will result in less game updates/ect.
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:12:00 - [16] this has been explained here somewhere before /me rummages for the post basically, it boils down to VAT by buying and importing the timecards from the US you ARE legally obliged (afaik) to pay UK VAT on these. but meh, does anyone actually do this? is there a huge VAT ***down about to take place in the UK? are thousands of eve-gamers about to get wtfpwned by the VAT man? stay tuned for another episode of "i dont really know but here's some possible reasons"!!11one ____________________ Originally by:** Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Curver no i dont expect brittain to expect us to pay in dollers. blah blah I found this out about a 1/2 years ago. Luckily for me, I'm affiliated with shatteredcrystals, so any of TRW's corp members from Europe tend to buy through me, so I get money to keep the site going longer, and it allows them to pay for EVE cheaper. I completely agree that CCP should pay closer attention to the exchange rates, and adjust subscription fees accordingly. --- Cache Clearer
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 31/01/2007 14:14:38 AFAIK ShatteredCrystal prices do not include VAT, so technically you are breaking the law by buying from them. -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 31/01/2007 14:14:38 AFAIK ShatteredCrystal prices do not include VAT, so technically you are breaking the law by buying from them. if he doesn't pay the VAT yes i'm fairly sure just by buying them he isn't breaking any laws ____________________ Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar Originally by: Dark Shikari AFAIK ShatteredCrystal prices do not include VAT, so technically you are breaking the law by buying from them. if he doesn't pay the VAT yes i'm fairly sure just by buying them he isn't breaking any laws Who is actually going to pay the VAT if they're not forced to? -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
GandolftheWhite Gallente PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:34:00 - [21] keep in mind, CCP may not get the most favorable exchange rates with L sterling, as it enters thier banks in either iceland or lord knows where, perhaps cayman islands etc. You claim your being ripped off, but cmon, youve got no idea how thier banking system works.
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar Originally by: Dark Shikari AFAIK ShatteredCrystal prices do not include VAT, so technically you are breaking the law by buying from them. if he doesn't pay the VAT yes i'm fairly sure just by buying them he isn't breaking any laws Who is actually going to pay the VAT if they're not forced to? touchT ____________________ Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:38:00 - [23] isnt it the responcibility of the retailer to pay VAT? For example, i walk into my local store, buy a mouse at ú3.00 i dont get to the till and they go you need to pay vat on that. Why because its included in the price, why is it included in the price because the retailer pays it. Do i have to fill out a form for VAT when purchacing from an online entity? i dont beleive so because its the sellers responcibility, only if i am buying it to sell on to others for a profit should i personally have to pay the VAT. If i am buying for personal use, its the retailers responcibilty to charge VAT. If its not charged, its included in the price. Thats my understanding of it anyways which i will look into.
Soon Tzu	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Curver isnt it the responcibility of the retailer to pay VAT? For example, i walk into my local store, buy a mouse at ú3.00 i dont get to the till and they go you need to pay vat on that. Why because its included in the price, why is it included in the price because the retailer pays it. Do i have to fill out a form for VAT when purchacing from an online entity? i dont beleive so because its the sellers responcibility, only if i am buying it to sell on to others for a profit should i personally have to pay the VAT. If i am buying for personal use, its the retailers responcibilty to charge VAT. If its not charged, its included in the price. Thats my understanding of it anyways which i will look into. If you buy from a retailer in another country, YOU are responsible for reporting the item and paying the VAT, or you will be guilty of tax evasion. It is not the responsability of another countries venders to collect on any tax for your country, but YOU are responsible for reporting property purchased and paying tax on said property within your own country.

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Soon Tzu Originally by: Curver isnt it the responcibility of the retailer to pay VAT? For example, i walk into my local store, buy a mouse at ú3.00 i dont get to the till and they go you need to pay vat on that. Why because its included in the price, why is it included in the price because the retailer pays it. Do i have to fill out a form for VAT when purchacing from an online entity? i dont beleive so because its the sellers responcibility, only if i am buying it to sell on to others for a profit should i personally have to pay the VAT. If i am buying for personal use, its the retailers responcibilty to charge VAT. If its not charged, its included in the price. Thats my understanding of it anyways which i will look into. If you buy from a retailer in another country, YOU are responsible for reporting the item and paying the VAT, or you will be guilty of tax evasion. It is not the responsability of another countries venders to collect on any tax for your country, but YOU are responsible for reporting property purchased and paying tax on said property within your own country. Quoted for truth - i got stung buying an eve fleece from the store when i lived in the UK. There was no mention about taxes and then i got a bill from DHL saying they wanted cash off me for paying import dues. It's up to the buyer to declare taxable purchases from another country. Now i don't need to worry about taxes from the eve store \o/ ________________________________ ~Jiekon ~CCP QA Known Issues Page The LogServer Easy Steps To Bug Reporting

Siri Blue Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:57:00 - [26] Concerning VAT (which would be Zoll or importing tax in Germany I believe): Well, lets see... The tax is supposed to be 19% or so? Hm...and I'm paying 270 Million ISK per GTC... So thats 51.3 million in taxes... Where do I send that to?
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:57:00 - [27] Heh, I was smart, I chose the $ option when choosing to pay for my sub, so I pay less than the euro option. They should just remove the euro option and keep it all $ really. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:00:00 - [28] But how to know when you have to pay vat, quoting from direct.gov.uk: "Businesses with annual sales below ú61,000 don't have to register for (and therefore charge) VAT. If they don't, the price you pay for their goods or services may be cheaper than if you bought the same goods or services from a VAT-registered supplier." Does this company sell over ú61000 a year? how am i ment to know? -------------------------- Please remember i am just arguing a point of view, not that i have done this it is that i have noticed the different in price and foudn it strange we are paying ú5 more then the US.
Curver	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:01:00 - [29] Edited by: Curver on 31/01/2007 14:58:12 Originally by: maarud Heh, I was smart, I chose the $ option when choosing to pay for my sub, so I pay less than the euro option. They should just remove the euro option and keep it all $ really. /agree would solve all problems to have everyone pay the same ammount in the same currency.. + Vat for each indvidual country. The point of the thread is not to discuss VAT. it is to discuss the BASE price of paying in the US and UK. Since Eurors pay a higher base price before any additions.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Curver Edited by: Curver on 31/01/2007 13:18:55 Hello everyone. I have recently had to re-sub my game since my game expired when i noticed somthing rather strange. I personally pay via credit card, directly to ccp. i thougth this was the chespest most effective way but it seems i am mistaken infact it looks as if we are being over charged! Let me explain: 1 month subscription 14.95 euro 3month subscription 38.85 euro. Now im british so lets convert this into a currency i can understand: 1month - ú9.91 3months - ú25.75 thanks to xe.com Ok fair enough, but what are these etc's i hear so much about lets have a look at the first site i come to.. shateredcrystal.com for example. 30 day time code: $14.99 90 time code: $38.99 note this is in dollers. Nice little conversion to GBP: 30 day code - ú7.68 90 day code - ú19.97 -------------------------------- So what does this mean? Well lets work out the saving by using gtc's: 30day/1month = ú9.91 - ú7.68 = ú2.23 90 day/3months = ú25.75 - 19.97 = ú5.78 this is how much more you pay if you sub by credit card. Now it is possible for the prices on te site to be in $ which would mean that everything was the same and all is well but because we are using euros and these gtc sites use dollers the exchange rate makes it that we are being riped off by ú6 every 3 month subscripsion which could pay for an extra months subscription! Sorry if im wrong but i just work up and my maths is bad lol. /discuss -Curver well i'm english. i don't want a credit card, thus don't have one to use here, so i have always used GTC's bought from shattered crystal. note that i would never buy a GTC for ISK, nor sell one for ISK, as i don't believe in this lamer tactic. ========================================== Iy

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